I have to admit that when I started Cinema Femme, I was very focused on the disparity in opportunities for women and non-binary people both in front of and behind the camera. That is why I was so highly motivated to start this magazine. There was not enough media shining a light on these inequities. The money that was backing films made by women was nothing compared to what had been granted to their male peers, and the opportunities were lacking too. And don’t get me started on the accolades! The representation of leading actresses and Queer people on screen was not equal either, and even more lacking with People of Color. In 2019 and 2020, I really wanted to dive deep into these disparities with data experts like Caroline Heldman from the Geena Davis Institute and Anna Serner from the Swedish Film Institute.
Cinema Femme was also birthed in a post-#MeToo world. Shows like “I May Destroy You” were delving deep into our collective consciousness. Then a pandemic began, and we all were lost at sea, leaving us stuck at home. That’s when I discovered feminist gems like Lizzie Borden’s “Born in Flames” and Cheryl Dunye’s “The Watermelon Woman.” I watched the TCM series “Women Make Film,” and my mind was blown by all the brilliant pieces of cinema by these female auteurs. There seemed to be some kind of revival for restorations of their work. So it was all getting better, right?
It was hard to rely on numbers during the pandemic as most of the public were staying away from the theaters. Then things were opening up again, and “Barbie” was the biggest blockbuster success of last year. At the same time, we had the SAG-AFTRA and WGA strikes, and production was pretty much at a halt. I saw the articles last year about how things are getting worse for women in film, but I kept my focus on the work that was being produced, while building our underrepresented communities. In 2022, I started collaborating with Camera Ambassador on THE CALL SHEET, and in 2023, Cinema Femme had its first in-person film festival at the Music Box Theatre. But as a film journalist for a magazine elevating women and non-binary people in the film industry, I feel I fell short on my reporting of this data. It is so vital that I elevate these studies. Here is one article that I found which illuminates these numbers: https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2024/03/oscars-film-industry-gender-parity.
I’m starting my interview with these thoughts because of my conversation with filmmaker Nicole Riegel. We talked about her new film, “Dandelion,” which centers around a singer-songwriter, played by KiKi Layne, and her journey as an independent artist. The film is beautifully shot by Lauren Guiteras, and is inspired by Nicole’s personal experience working as a filmmaker. Nicole expressed her frustration with the industry and the disparities women and non-binary people are facing in the industry today. Rightly so, she called out myself and my fellow film journalists on not steering the ship more toward shining a light on these disparities. She expressed that she would love for there to be a part two made of “Half the Picture,” which came out in 2018. The documentary is about discriminatory hiring practices concerning women directors in Hollywood. For Nicole, the disparities lie mostly with trust in the women and non-binary people behind the camera, and the ability for the production companies to trust and support their processes.
That is why it is so refreshing that “Dandelion” exists. It’s a film whose titular character is a Black woman songstress from Cincinnati, Ohio. It is thrilling to follow the artistic journey of Dandelion, played by the super-talented KiKi Layne, who I also interviewed for this feature. The landscapes are gorgeous, as most of the film takes place in the Badlands. There is romance that sparks between Dandelion and the character Casey, played by Thomas Doherty. The film could be compared to “Once,” another film about two musicians forging an intimate collaboration, but what’s special about this picture is that the female character is central to the story. “Dandelion” comes to theaters nationwide on July 12, and be sure not to miss it on the big screen!
Nicole, what inspired the making of this film? And how does it fit into your Ohio Women Trilogy?
Nicole Riegel (NR): Thanks for mentioning it! Yes, with the Ohio Women Trilogy, I originally wanted to make a film that charts the journey of three different women from Ohio, with different backgrounds, different races, and different ages. Kind of like the three characters in Kelly Reichardt’s “Certain Women.” With my trilogy, it was important to me to have all of these women from more impoverished backgrounds. Through that, we see how class plays a role in their dreams, hopes, and desires. Each story is personal to me and is inspired by different time periods of my life. These stories are not at all literal, not like my autobiographical story, but personal. So there’s “Holler,” the teen years, and then “Dandelion,” with a woman who is in her thirties. I know that I’ll want the third one to be about a much older woman in her fifties or sixties. I want to cast in that age range. And that probably won’t be the next thing I do, but that’s how “Dandelion” kind of fits into that.
KiKi, how did you come to this project, and what attracted you to this character?
KiKi Layne (KL): My reps sent me the script, and I loved it. The next thing was having a meeting with Nicole and just talking to her about her vision, what this story meant to her and why she needed to tell it. I just connected with that so deeply, artist to artist. I connected as an artist because I understand what it’s like to pursue something that doesn’t really feel like it has that much space for you. We really just connected there, and both had this commitment to honoring the truth through the artist’s journey.
Nicole, can you talk about working with KiKi and the female singers that inspired this character?
NR: I found KiKi through the audition process. Her singing tape was sent to me and it was so pretty. She auditioned with a Paramore song, “The Only Exception.” And just meeting with her was so lovely. It was pretty clear from the beginning that she should be Dandelion after I met her. The female singers that inspired Dandelion were Joy Oladokun, Tracy Chapman, Phoebe Bridgers, Angel Olson, Kara Jackson, Julian Baker, and even Taylor Swift. All of those artists are inspirations.
KiKi, I’m curious if you channeled any of your favorite singers, and what was your creative process in building the character?
KL: For this one, I just was really trying to see what connected me to Dandelion. I do that with any character that I play, but this one was unique because there are so many similarities between us. It was almost like I had to be more mindful of knowing that this is not autobiographical [laughs]. There is so much overlap between me and this character, but also I have to be very clear about the things that are different. So that was a big part of my preparation.
In terms of musical influences for Dandelion’s music, I was thinking about Lauryn Hill, Tracy Chapman, and I discovered this really cool artist called Joy Oladokun. I think we put one of her songs into the film. With building this character, I found and learned from these Black women with guitars, artists who exist a bit outside of the R&B genre.
KiKi, I am a huge fan of Dandelion’s wardrobe in this film, especially the jacket she wears in the Badlands. Can you talk about finding your style, and working with Michael Wilkie, the costume designer?
KL: Costumes are, for me, probably the most important external character-building piece. What we wear and how a person dresses is such a reflection of who they are, how they see themselves, and how they want the world to see them. So I had really meaningful conversations with Nicole, and also with Michael about what we wanted to communicate through Dandelion with her costumes. For instance, you never see her in anything tight. She’s not that type of character. She’s not going to be in tight jeans or in a tight shirt. The color red was very important too for the character. You see her mostly in hues of red until she starts to connect with Casey, and then you see her wearing some of his blues, and things like that. There’s like a whole story with costumes. It’s very, very important to me to be on the same page with the costume designer. So Michael and I clicked like that.
Nicole, can you touch on the similarities between female song artists and female filmmakers when it comes to creative control and representation?
NR: We’re often as women in the directing chair, just like women in music, not often presented in our own art, we are not often visible. What I mean by that is that there is not a lot of recognition for women in the directing chair. There’s some. I don’t want to say there is none. But I do think it’s been a little trendy and performative to say here’s my female director versus here’s our male director. I’ve felt overlooked and I’ve felt sidelined, and I feel sidelined. But I just keep hanging in there and making movies. When you look at my peers, and you look at who is really championed on the stages, and in the media, mainstream and independent, it’s the men. And we’re often not trusted with our own art. We are not trusted on our sets. People don’t trust us to direct them. We have to work extra hard to earn trust. We’re not just given trust.
I wish more writers and critics like yourself were steering the conversation with all of that. I mean there’s #MeToo with sexual harassment and sexual assault, but there’s a whole other layer to that inequality that I don’t think journalists, writers, critics are pushing on yet, which is just the trust. It’s about how women directors are treated behind the scenes, and what our experiences are actually like on movie sets.
There’s a documentary out there called “Half the Picture,” and a lot of people saw it. It’s a wonderful one. I think there needs to be a chapter two to that film. If you look at the numbers from 2020, it’s gotten worse. We’re really not in a good place. You can hold up Greta Gerwig, or Chloe Zhao, or Katherine Bigelow, or Jane Campion. Four women? I mean, I love Greta Gerwig, but we can’t just keep hanging our hat on the same female directors. And I don’t know her personally, but I feel like she would agree. I mean, there’s so many of us out there. We find one a year, and then we hang our hat on her, and say, “yeah, progress.” It just seems so performative to me.
I totally agree. That’s why I’m driven to do the work I do with Cinema Femme. I appreciate you being specific about this inequality. Thank you for that.
Nicole, I love that you used a female cinematographer, Lauren Guiteras. She was a DP on one of my favorite films, “Ma Belle, My Beauty,” directed by one of my favorite filmmakers, Marion Hill.
NR: Most of my crew is actually made up of women. My whole camera team is women, except G and E, and you know, maybe there was a male gaffer, but my team was mostly women. And yes, if you really talk about who is getting the short end of the stick, talk about the cinematography field. Lauren is a just a total, pardon my language, fucking genius. She is the other half of “Dandelion.” This movie was not possible without her. We sometimes bicker like an old married couple on set, but she has taught me so much. She is such a teacher to me as well. I have grown as a director because of Lauren. I’ve learned so much about my lens choices, questioning why I do what I do. She’s made me even watch movies differently. I think the best cinematographers are the ones that directors can learn from, and visa versa. I feel like a student of Lauren, and I’m grateful that she is my cinematographer. I’m really excited to do my next film with her, and to just keep working with her. I really feel like we together have crafted such a strong visual language. My god, Lauren needs more praise.
There was so much visually to work with too. South Dakota is so beautiful, and in the fall, those colors! I’m now inspired to do a road trip!
NR: Yes, get lost in the Badlands, get lost like Dandelion.
KiKi, I love how your character Dandelion is the centerpiece of Nicole’s Ohio Women Trilogy. I actually had the opportunity to interview Jessica Barden about “Holler,” along with Nicole, and she couldn’t stop talking about how Ohio had such a different kind of landscape for her. How was it for you to shoot in the beautiful nature of South Dakota?
KL: It was amazing. I mean, South Dakota was not on my list of top places that I need to see in the world, but I’m very very grateful that I got to experience that. The nature there is so special, even the animals. I’m like, ‘Is that a Bison on the road?” These little things are just like, “wow,” and that’s one of the things that I love about acting. It can take you to these different places, it can introduce you to different skills and you learn more about you and the things that you like and excite you. So I never would have thought that South Dakota would be one of the most beautiful places that I visited, but it really was.
I love how you shot KiKi so small on the mountains. The immensity of it all is so gorgeous.
NR: I love that you noticed that, because yes, with that shot, she feels free and empowered because she has gone out there and wrote this song that she’s been trying to crack this whole time. But what we actually were trying to show with that shot is how we get so caught up in specific problems, especially artists, like, “I can’t crack this song,” or “I can’t crack this film,” or “I can’t figure this out,” and it’s all consuming. We forget how tiny we are in the world, and how humbling it is. The Badlands took millions of years to form. All of this natural beauty is so patient. People are still coming from all over the world to admire it and see it, but yet, as artists, we’re expecting things to happen overnight for us. There’s a quote by Ralph Waldo Emerson that says how, as artists, we should adopt the pace of nature, and her secret is patience. And that is what is happening to Dandelion, she is understanding patience as an artist. She knows that her art isn’t going to happen overnight if she is going to be as beautiful as these badlands.
What do you hope people see in your film?
NR: I hope they go see this film on July 12th in the theater, and they walk away thinking, ‘It’s about process instead of the results. You can’t control the results, it’s about staying in the process.’ I want people to feel like, ‘wow, this person didn’t become like Beyoncé in the end, but my god, what a happy and uplifting ending.’ You just keep going, and you continue to stay in the process. I hope people go see it and they just feel like they watched a romantic summer movie that leaves them refreshed and joyful.
KL: I hope people see, and really connect with, the artist’s journey. And the film is not just for artists. It’s for anyone who has a passion, anyone that has a dream that maybe not everyone understands. Or a dream that isn’t guaranteed to put a lot of money into your bank account. This movie is for you as well. It’s about this woman who is just about ready to give up on the thing that she loves the absolute most in the world. I hope that people really connect with that, and feel encouraged to know that you’re not alone in that journey. And that if you still love it, then keep fighting for it.
