In this day and age, our social media presence is a reflection of ourselves. It’s a highly curated, performative version of what we see in the mirror everyday. Yet still, we’re always comparing ourselves to everyone else we see online. This effects everyone in every industry, but especially the entertainment industry. Too tall, too pretty, too much of an ugly crier – the comparisons are endless.
Emily Robinson’s feature debut “Ugly Cry” follows Delaney, a young actress who loses her dream role because of her “ugly cry”, causing her to chase the image of perfection, regardless of the dangers.
The film reminds us of the dangers of comparison culture, perfection, and living our lives like the Instagram edited version of ourselves. Robinson tells an eerily relatable story about a young woman on the edge of destruction, leaving viewers wondering if it’s still possible for us to turn back as a society.
Cinema Femme sat down with director, writer and actress Emily Robinson, and actress Robin Tunney to discuss all things “Ugly Cry.”
Megan Henderson: Emily, how did you come up with the idea for “Ugly Cry”?
Emily Robinson: I grew up in entertainment, so I think that the way I thought about body, sexuality and self has always been really informed by performativity and the performance of self. During the pandemic especially, it felt like more and more people were staring at their screens and Zoom calls, and nitpicking visual representations of self, rather than feeling fully embodied. I’ve been thinking about all of that, and I think crying was something I was always fixated on when I was a kid first acting.
I remember I was in a play and there was this actress, Virginia Cole, who has this incredible scene every night where she was crying. It was so vulnerable, compelling and beautiful. I would always go up to her and be like “How did you do that?” and she’d say “I don’t know, go to acting school! Go on your own journey.”
I think crying in performance is such a vulnerable thing and should be such a pure moment, however sometimes it can be forced, it can be pushed, it can feel small. There’s so many ranges to it, but I think it’s a moment where you’re looking for pure connection and honesty, and so to be judged for an aesthetic reason for crying is something I found to be very interesting and a good way into exploring these topics.
MH: Robin, how did you become attached to this project? What about “Ugly Cry” and about Emily as a filmmaker attracted you to the project?
Robin Tunney: I did a movie called “By Design” which was directed by Amanda Kramer, who is a friend and collaborator of Emily’s. She’s a very serious person, so when she calls you about something it’s because she believes in it. “Ugly Cry” was starting to film very quickly so I read it right away because I just felt like Emily must be so stressed getting started, starring in the movie which she wrote. I had so much admiration for what she’d taken on. It makes me feel really excited for the next generation of women and actresses where these things are all possible. So I was really excited. I read the script and I loved it. I called her immediately, and told her I was in.
I’d seen Emily act, I’d seen “Eighth Grade”, and I’d also seen a short she was in that Amanda Kramer directed. I was just really excited to go and support her. I feel politics and the world are so dark right now, and it makes you feel like you should be doing something to help. I feel like helping other women make movies is in my wheelhouse, and something I can try to do to make the world a better place. They’re still pioneers. Women are still minorities as filmmakers, and their voices are really important.
I spent my teens and twenties playing women and girls that were written by men, directed by men. I’m so happy to be even a small part of helping someone’s voice be heard, and to trickle that effect to the next generation. There’d be no Emily Robinson if there wasn’t Barbra Streisand making “Yentl.” There’s be no Greta Gerwig or Eva Victor. We’re all standing on the shoulders of these other women, and I’m just so thrilled to be a part of helping a woman’s voice get into the world.
MH: Emily, you were wearing a lot of hats here by writing, directing and starring in this film. How was that process for you? What was the most challenging part of hopping in and out of those roles on set?
ER: It was incredible. Obviously, what you need to make that work is an incredible team around you. And lots of prep time. I felt so fortunate that our cast was so thoughtful and prepared and generous and understanding that I was running around and switching between roles. And also that our crew was so gracious with their time to prep and prepare and talk through things. We would do meetings in the morning in the makeup chair. Everyone was very understanding that things weren’t going to be so traditional.
I was very fortunate that my on the ground producers, I had worked with them before and they are very creative and thoughtful people, and they were all wearing multiple hats too. One of the producers was the AD, another was doing wardrobe and was on monitor for me when I couldn’t be watching, our other producer was DITing. Everyone had eyes on multiple departments, but also because of that, the communication was more insular. Everyone was on the same page and communicating with each other.
I think the hardest things was just trying to make sure I could be present with each person I was talking to. That led to a lot of not sleeping, waking up early and making sure all of the pieces were in the right place, like “Okay can I show up for our DP and then switch into actor mode.”
RT: I also think Emily was born with an enormous brain. It’s true. She listens to podcasts at an accelerated rate, and I think that there’s people that were born to do things like this and have the bandwidth to do it, and I don’t think there are many. Also having Pablo Feldman and Sophia Sabella, there was trust. And the people from Neon Heart, they make the kinds of movies everybody likes, and I think often that’s not the case.
Obviously there were tradeoffs, Emily didn’t have a lot of money but she had a lot of love, and a lot of people with similar taste around her, and that’s not always the case. It’s subjective. You want to be making art with people who have similar sensibilities. I think they all did.
ER: It’s so rare, it felt so special to have a team where everyone’s interests were really aligned. Neon Heart, their whole thing is supporting first and second time female filmmakers. Their goal is to help you begin a career in directing. They partially financed the film, and having a financier whose goal isn’t just returns, which is a fair goal when financing a film, it was incredibly rare and unique and cool.
RT: I definitely think the ideology behind everyone involved…I mean it wasn’t about the return. The idea of supporting female voices seems like it’s more important to them. I don’t know. If something feels like it’s a transaction it takes away from the art. We have countries that have a lot less money than we do, but the government helps finance movies. They do that in Canada. My DP is from Kosovo, they do that in Kosovo. It’s this idea of let’s support artists and make art, and I wish we had more of that. You don’t know if someone is a first time director if you’ll get your money back. And great things will come out of that, and that’s how you make discoveries. If something is a safe bet, it’s going to be made before and by the numbers. It doesn’t announce a new voice or new point of view.
MH: Robin, this is sort of a meta question, but I think we like to think we have progressed since the harsh beauty standards of the 90’s and 2000’s, but as “Ugly Cry” highlights, they’ve just changed and we’re expected to change with them. Through this time, have you noticed any changes in these impossible expectations placed on women in the industry?
RT: I think it’s worse now! With Instagram, how many followers people have, and plastic surgery, and the idea of perfection, I feel like it’s harder on women now. When I started acting, I wanted to be Juliette Lewis. That was the ultimate. She was an actress who dressed herself, and had a face that didn’t look like anyone else’s.
I feel like it’s harder now, but women have more autonomy in that they are telling stories, creating things and writing things, but it’s still not enough. I feel that social media has really made it harder on men and women. It’s the idea of having to be dressed all the time, and perfection, and filters, and “Why don’t I look like that?” It’s really difficult.
MH: Emily, this film also focuses on how far we are willing to push ourselves for success, and how we strive for perfection, especially as women. You’ve shared that this story came from a lot of your feelings towards the film industry, and comparison culture in general. Did you ever find yourself comparing, or striving for perfection while filming this, or was this a cathartic release for you?
ER: I’ve been working in film for over 20 years, so luckily I’ve had time to process a lot of the more harmful feelings. I think, of course, there are times where it’s hard still. It’s not to say I’m healed and everything is perfect, but I think with Delaney specifically, she’s in the thick of these very bad feelings and acting in a toxic way. I’m very grateful that I do not live her life.
I think the ideas behind it are what resonate, and it was incredibly cathartic. Getting to make this movie with Robin, who has always been such an inspiration and an amazing actress I looked up to so much, and getting to make it with Ryan Simpkins who plays Maya. I’ve been friends with her for ten years, and we have helped each other with tapes and we’ve had these conversations of like “What are we doing?” Most of the actors I’m close friends with, if not all, we have these existential conversations about what it means to be an actor now, what it means to freelance in this creative economy. I think these conversations are very real and very much a part of my life, but I think in a much more processed way thankfully.
RT: But also, the digital nature of the audition process has separated actors. I used to be able to go on auditions and I’d see the same five girls there and we’d become friends. We’d go and have a coffee, and I think this sort of self taping, in a vacuum, looking at your face…I mean I didn’t know what my tapes looked like when I went in and read for casting directors. I feel like the casting directors could mentor you, and that you were a part of a community.
I think Emily is building one for herself, along with Amanda Kramer and Ryan and all of these wonderful actors and filmmakers, but you have to work for it now. In my generation, it happened to you by virtue of proximity, and no one has that anymore, and I think it’s the same thing going on culturally. Like right now, this interview is on a zoom, we’re not meeting in person. It’s an epidemic of loneliness, and just trying to make people feel more connected.
LA is so hard to be in right now, nothing is shooting here. I feel like people are starting to reach out to one another and theres a burgeoning independent film scene, a community of people trying to make it happen. It’s funny because when I was coming up, it was the opposite coasts. I was in New York, and it was impossible to be in New York. One show shot there and it was “Law and Order.” You would make $300 a week doing theatre, but the 90’s independent film in New York was incredible. Films like “You Can Count on Me,” it was people making something out of nothing, and that’s my wish for what LA has been going through.
It’s profound and no one wants to talk about it because no one feels sorry for people in the entertainment industry. The coal industry, the automative industry – they govern bailouts, and the rest of America feels bad for them, but I feel like there is this perception that people who work in entertainment are so privileged. We have crew people who have being doing this for generations who haven’t had work in five years. It’s what the city was built in, it’s lineage is film, it’s the major export, and it’s gone. There is this group of young people trying to make it happen with nothing.
MH: With such a female focused story, what does it mean to you to be able to share this film with such a supportive community here in Chicago?
ER: I’m so excited! I’m very grateful to have had a relationship with Cinema Femme for a few years now. I was one of the mentors one year, I’ve screened something before. I’ve been aware of the festival and a fan of the festival for a long time.
I was grateful to film a feature in Chicago a few years back and the filmmaking community there is so supportive, eager and fun. So to be able to play the Music Box with such a wonderful group of people, I’m just beyond excited and touched, and couldn’t be more grateful.
RT: I’m from Chicago, and Music Box is where I fell in love with movies. I thought that if I had a movie that played there one day, that would mean I made it. I am a fan of movies first and foremost, and I’ve always loved going to the movies and getting to go back to the city I’m from and be a part of a legendary theatre is great. To support other women, I love doing. My friend Jennifer Reeder is picking me up at the airport, she’s incredible. She makes great movies. We did something with Jena Malone here and we started DMing on Instagram. That is a good thing about social media. There are people I have relationships with just based on that, and liking their work. You see that they follow you and you start talking to them. There are ways in which it’s connecting people.
It means everything to go back to Chicago. I love Chicago. There’s all these independent filmmakers coming out of Chicago, going back to “Henry: Portrait of a Serial Killer.” They’re men.
ER: Alex Heller! Alex worked on a film that I did and she’s a Chicago native and great filmmaker, and we filmed right outside of Hamburger University, the old campus.
RT: I did a McDonald’s industrial film there! I got fired from it. They asked me to not come back after lunch.
ER: That’s iconic.
RT: It’s a great city and a place that supports art and theatre and I love being from there, and I love people from the midwest. I feel like there is a pride in where people come from out there. If you ask someone where to get a cup of coffee, they’ll list five places and give you the virtues of each place. If you’re after something, they take the time. That doesn’t happen in New York or LA. I love this city.
“Ugly Cry” is playing at Music Box Theatre as a part of Cinema Femme’s 8th Short Film Festival on October 13th at 6:45 pm, with Emily Robinson, Robin Tunney, and Aaron Dominguez in person. Tickets are available at https://musicboxtheatre.com/films-and-events/ugly-cry
